Jared Flinn:
You're listening to the Bolt Floats podcast, your number one resource for everything, bolt freight trucking. Hey, guys. Jared Flynn with the Bulk loads podcast. Got Tyler here with me.
Tyler Allison:
What's going on?
Jared Flinn:
Let's kick it off with the truck feature.
Tyler Allison:
Oh, yeah. Today we got James Clayton with Diamond five C trucking out of Mertson, Texas. He's been a member with us since 2023. And James is actually with us on bulk loads. He's an insurance client. He does smart freight, and he also utilizes our tms.
Jared Flinn:
So he's on four of the platforms.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah, yeah. So he utilizes most of our servers. So we just want to send out a deep thank you to James. And you've got a sharp rig as well.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, that blue, super cool color. So awesome. Well, man, that's awesome. We always call that a grand slam. I mean, he's onboarded all of our functions, which is really, really cool. So. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, James.
Jared Flinn:
To get featured on this, we would love to have you. All you have to do is send a picture to either podcast oakloads.com or reach out to any of our social media if you're subscribed. And we can get that featured on there.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah, we'd love to have you on the show.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, man, that is a super sharp rig.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah, I love it.
Jared Flinn:
It's got a hood.
Tyler Allison:
Always fan that. The aftermarket headlights, too. Yeah, on those tracks.
Jared Flinn:
Absolutely. So cool. One thing, too I want to throw out before we get into the episode. I just got back from visit down in Tennessee. We did a company highlight feature. It was actually Jimmy T. Trucking. Actually, Joe, who does all the editing, was on that trip.
Jared Flinn:
And Joe, I want you to throw up a couple of those photos, man. We just had an amazing time. And, uh, the only thing I bring this up is, like, man, when you go on these visits, you learn so much about what these companies do. And I had no idea. Like, down in Memphis, like, this company, they're barging sugar all the way from Brazil up. I mean, thousands and thousands of tons. Then they truck it across town. They're bringing in steel.
Jared Flinn:
I mean, all your different aggregates, 400 truckloads a day. Like this little, like on the river. Wouldn't even think anything of it, actually. Even a lot of the warehousing, it's like old industrial buildings, like, from the outside, like, looks like they're not even being used. And just.
Tyler Allison:
You wouldn't think it's just a mega channel for all these products going in and then going back out. And that's what you were saying this morning, like, most people have no idea, like, what's going on those barges and what's moving and stuff. So, yeah, it was really cool to hear.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, and it was cool. One of those guys, they came up to our conference back in April, and they've been on booklets for a while, but they wanted their kind been a little bit of a rebrand and growing that business, but wanted to figure out how to grow their business. We came down there and yeah, it was just a great time. So, man, just want to thank you guys for having us down there. And yeah, we want to highlight more companies and only say that we got a couple more people. Actually, they requested last, from last week's video, get a hold of us. You can send it to podcast oakloads.com dot let us come out and feature one of the companies I just actually was on the phone with and they asked if we charge or what do we charge to do that? The answer is nothing. Yeah, we basically, we see it as a partnership.
Jared Flinn:
Most of y'all are clients of ours, so we want to feature for that reason. And again, we want to show content and showcase you. It shows people who you are on our platform. And then again, it allows you to showcase yourself to your business process. So awesome. Cool. Well, today's podcast, I'm going to bring on one of our local companies, Eric Wilmothe with Wilmouth Enterprises. They have quite the story, man.
Jared Flinn:
There's, I don't know which angle to start with this, but born and raised here in southwest Missouri, but they own and operate the TA travel centers. One in Mount Vernon, one up in Stratford.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah, they kind of got them all over the place down here.
Jared Flinn:
And just a really, really cool Eric, I think is third generation in the business and just kind of a remarkable story. What was interesting, and maybe you can tell this. And so let me gave back anhe on kind of how we got connected with Eric.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah. And before I say that, he, whenever this is kind of a perfect time to have this podcast real quick, I'll back up. Just because, you know, John Riley, we had George, we had him on the podcast. This is the fourth consecutive week that diesel prices have ticked up. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And you know, he sends those market updates out. And so it kind of, it's a good time to bring him on to talk about kind of why that is and how the whole pipeline works, where the diesel is actually coming from, where it's made stuff.
Tyler Allison:
But yeah, Eric, I don't exactly remember how.
Jared Flinn:
Okay, well, I'll tell the story. So Caleb Galvin, who is a member jag on, he's on our bulk loads in TMS. He was down there, and I think he gets fuel at the TA in Mount Vernon and ran into Eric. Actually, they're on the fuel island. And that's what's amazing about this story. And I don't want to rehash it all. I want you to listen to this. But actually, one of the unique things that they do is they go out and, like, fill the trucks up, they man the fuel island.
Jared Flinn:
And actually, that's how he got connected with Caleb, which allowed him, they ended up getting in some hoppers and end dumps, and he's running bulk freight and he's on bulk loads. So just really cool how that connection.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah, it shows you how close the industry is.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah. And again, they're being very innovative doing something that other people aren't doing from a fuel stop standpoint, actually going out there and visiting with the clients, which I think is just remarkable. But, yeah, I also, Eric, the, you know, times that I've gotten to meet and hang out with him, anytime he gets to talking about the fuel business, it's really interesting. I just, again, I find it super fascinating just because fuel is probably one of the largest expenses of our carriers, and guys are hauling freight up and down the road. So why not figure out how this. How we get fuel and basically all the cost and supply chain and all that that goes into it? And Eric does an amazing job of breaking that.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah. How old is Eric?
Jared Flinn:
You know, man, I mean, he's got to be young, mid thirties.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah. And he's just watching a little bit of the show.
Jared Flinn:
Like he's got the wisdom of a 60 year old.
Tyler Allison:
He's soaked it all in. You can tell.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah. Super sharp. So cool. With that said, here is my conversation with Eric Wilmothe of Wilmouth Enterprises. Eric, thanks for joining us in the studio.
Eric Wilmoth:
Thanks for having me.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, this is going to be a great podcast, without a doubt. I think I may be all over the place on this. Just, I think you have a wealth of knowledge and your family history, but I know undoubtedly our listeners will get a lot out of this just with your story and your family's story. But if you want, just to start off, let's just go back to the beginning of how, you know, your grandpa, or even maybe great grandpa, but grandpa started the truck fuel business. Truck stops.
Eric Wilmoth:
My grandfather, Dwight Wilmoth, started in the service station business in 1953, leased a store in Mount Vernon for seven years, and then in 1960, bought the property and built where? The old ta travel center in Mount Vernon we still own and operate today. Built the location there in 1960. It was more of a service station style, modeled in with some truck islands. And then 1970, built it basically as it sits today. And then in operated through the seventies, we were Texaco, Texaco distributor. Then in 1980, we became the first franchisee of travel centers of America. Back then, truck stops of America. And that's kind of how we got started in the truck stop business.
Eric Wilmoth:
So. Oh, and over the years as well, my grandfather had, you know, a truck shop on old 66 and then in Monat, Missouri, on Missouri 37. So just kind of over the years, you know, throughout the years, I've been in the truck shop business.
Jared Flinn:
And even through that, you've even been in the trucking business.
Eric Wilmoth:
Absolutely.
Jared Flinn:
I mean, having trucks, buying and selling different companies.
Eric Wilmoth:
Absolutely. In 1987, my uncle and grandpa bought Nics transport. And then my dad shortly joined the business shortly after, in 1988. And once we bought NICs, we grew that from about five trucks to one point, about 125 trucks. Mainly hauling petroleum products. Pulled some stainless style stuff, did some other non hazmat tanker work. But it was mainly always predominantly petroleum based products. We hauled in that.
Eric Wilmoth:
And then over the course of when we got started in the trucking business, we also became a fuel wholesaler product. So we had a company that started out as Ozark Mountain Petroleum, then became Ozark Mountain Energy. Throughout the years that we sold product from. At the end, before we sold that company, we sold product from Salt Lake City, Utah, all the way to Knoxville, Tennessee, to North Dakota, down to even south Texas. We actually did some export product in the Mexico.
Jared Flinn:
Because you're saying a billion gallons a year in the wholesale.
Eric Wilmoth:
At the very end, we were. We were tracking at about a billion gallons annually.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, you guys have. This is my opinion. But, like, you guys have seemed to, like, enter and exit the market at good times.
Eric Wilmoth:
Yeah, we have. We've been very blessed by that. Glory be to God on that.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, absolutely.
Eric Wilmoth:
We've been very blessed.
Jared Flinn:
So today, as it stands, though, you all have what companies?
Eric Wilmoth:
Just so right now, the Wilmouth companies consist of. We have the Ozarks travel Center TA in Mount Vernon, which is the new location. Mount Vernon. We have the TA in Strafford, Missouri. We have the TA express in Mount Vernon, Missouri, which is the old location. And then we've got five or six convenience stores, hotspot convenience stores. And then we've got. Our trucking business is Ozarks Petroleum transport.
Eric Wilmoth:
Our biofuels company is Ozarks Petroleum. And then we've got Wilmouth ranches. That's basically the Wilmouth companies as of right now.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, I'm going to tell this story and then I want you to kind of dovetail off of it. But I. It was last year, the year before one of our members on bulk loads, you know, was talking that, hey, he was down here west of Springfield and went to this ta, and this was before I knew you. And he was like, yeah, the owner of the company was out there filling up my truck.
Eric Wilmoth:
Oh, yeah.
Jared Flinn:
And I was like, man, he was really nice and just a genuine guy. Had this great conversation. And in my mind, I was like, like, the owner of Ta is probably not out there pumping fuel number one and thinking, ta is the corporate ta, you know, with a, you know, however many truck stops they have. And so anyways, I was just like, yeah, I'm sure, you know, okay, whatever. You probably got some. You're confused there. But come to find out, it was the owner of the Ta, which was your father. Yep, if I stand correct.
Jared Flinn:
But you guys have adopted this. And, I mean, I think of this, if you listen to any of my podcasts, I always talk about ten x move. Like, there's nobody else out there, at least to my knowledge. Like, out there hand pumping diesel fuel into some of these truckers. But talk about, like, where did that idea come from and what have been the blessings from it?
Eric Wilmoth:
You know, that idea came from back when my grandfather started. It was the service station business and it was full service. And my dad and grandfather did it and my uncle did as well throughout the years. And then when my dad started, he worked on the fuel islands, the truck stop with his dad, throughout the late eighties and early nineties. And when we opened up the new travel center, we said, you know, we want to give this a personal touch that nobody else offers. And we want to be connected with our customers. We want to know our customers and we want to know them. You know, know what they're doing.
Eric Wilmoth:
How can we make their day better? How can we. We want to be different, and we want to provide something that they can't get anywhere else. And the biggest personal touch is a lost art in today's business model. I mean, it's. It is. How can we get people through here as fast as possible? And we want to know people by name. We want to know their story. And we want the.
Eric Wilmoth:
We want to be engaged with our customers because it's a. When you have a more reliable and loyal customer base, we want. We want repeat customers. We don't want a one and done. We want people that that is their stop. They want to be where they stop every single time they're through.
Jared Flinn:
So, yeah, I know that the original, you know, full service stations, you had full service that were pumping your fuel, cleaning your windshields and all that, but, you know, that kind of phased out. I'm not saying with you all, but, like, I mean, has that always been consistent, or did that come back? Did your dad start that back?
Eric Wilmoth:
He started that back. That faded out kind of in the late nineties. My dad got more heavily involved in the transportation business at the time, and we had acquired the truck stop at Stratford, so just kind of got busier with other things and kind of faded away. But we've actually always had some people, had people, employees that pumped fuel at the old location, Mount Vernon, still do today. We've always offered that at Mount Vernon.
Jared Flinn:
Okay.
Eric Wilmoth:
And we never did at Stratford. We always have at Mount Vernon.
Jared Flinn:
What have been some of the. I mean, obviously, you're seeing the fruits and the blessings from that, but can you share a couple of those stories of, I mean, people that you've methemeral, interacted with, maybe someone that made their day?
Eric Wilmoth:
I mean, countless times have I heard, you know, I. How's it going today? Having a terrible day. I make it my goal to make that person, when they leave, have a smile on their face and say, I want to come back here. I mean, countless times. I mean, at least once a day, you run into somebody, well, I'm having a terrible day today. My luck's been terrible. And, you know, hey, go inside, go get what you need. Come back out.
Eric Wilmoth:
We'll have your fuel pump for you, and go on and, you know, thank them, thanking people for their business and say, you know, come back and see us. And it puts a smile on their face. And I can't tell you how many times people say, you know, you made my day.
Jared Flinn:
Wow.
Eric Wilmoth:
And that's neat to see. It really is.
Jared Flinn:
You've said that, you know, up and down where we are, 44, I mean, they keep lining more and more truck, truck stops, fuel service stations, and some of them minority owned or Middle eastern, you know, specific demographics that they're catered. But you said that you guys actually get more of that traffic at your ta because of that level of service, that personal touch.
Eric Wilmoth:
Absolutely. No, I mean, we, we literally have a wide range of all sorts of business. We have. I mean, we're every, any, any kind of driver you can imagine to stop running down the highway, we've got them. We have a very wide range of business.
Jared Flinn:
Let's move on. And we may even kind of come back into that. But I want to almost nerd out a little bit on talking about decent fuel, because I find this fascinating. A lot of people, just like, you know, you hear people that don't know where the steak on their dinner came from. A lot of people don't even realize where that fuel came from. I mean, people know that comes from down in the ground.
Eric Wilmoth:
Absolutely.
Jared Flinn:
Perhaps. But, like, we're going to go all over the place here, but like, the grid across the United States of how, you know, everything from crude oil to the refineries, I mean, it's very different. But I guess let's just talk in the midwest and we may expand out. But, like, the fuel that people are filling up here, diesel fuel, where is.
Eric Wilmoth:
That originating from, the majority of product? If you're buying diesel fuel around Springfield, Missouri, the origin of that is. So the crude oil, that's the beginning. You got to take a barrel of crude oil and refine it to have diesel. That crude oil is predominantly coming from either central Oklahoma, Texas, Canada, or Montana for the most part, and a lot of times, and a little bit out of North, South Dakota, but.
Jared Flinn:
And that's getting. That's getting railed in or pumped.
Eric Wilmoth:
Pipeline crews being drawn out of the ground. It's either being piped in or via rail.
Jared Flinn:
Okay.
Eric Wilmoth:
For the most part, it's how it's going to, let's call it central Oklahoma. So it's going to central Oklahoma. Crude oil's being refined there. That process, you know, you take a barrel of crude oil, you've got approximately 55% gasoline, 40 or 35% to 40% distillates. Diesel. Diesel fuel, aviation products, kerosene oils, asphalt, lubricants, all that type stuff. So that's refined there. And then it is put in a.
Eric Wilmoth:
In the pipeline system, Magellan network or the Phillips pipeline system from central Oklahoma, and then it is shipped to Mount Vernon, Missouri, or Springfield, Missouri via the pipeline. And then you're loading it on a truck and delivering it to the actual facility.
Jared Flinn:
Now, just talking about here, you said pipeline via Mount Vernon because there's a.
Eric Wilmoth:
There's a Phillips 66 terminal, Mount Vernon, and there's a Magellan in Springfield.
Jared Flinn:
Okay. And that's coming in through a pipeline. Yep. And then from there, it gets stored, and then trucks go in there and move it to the fuel stops. Yep. Okay. Hey, guys, I hope you're enjoying this podcast with Eric Wilmoth, I want to just take a quick break and tell you something that we hear all the time when we're visiting with clients, one on one visits and talking them on the phone. A lot of them struggle with finding the right technology to manage and run their business.
Jared Flinn:
Now, there's a lot of technologies out there that focus on general freight, but only one that focuses on bulk freight, and that's Bulk TMS. Bulk TMS is a transportation management system that we have designed and built specifically for bulk carriers to not only save you money, but make you become more efficient, actually end up making more money. We had a customer one time tell us that using Bulk TMS has taken 33 hours down to 3 hours of work. And again, you know what your time is worth and how much valuable that is for your time. So if you haven't yet, check out bulktms.com. you can go to bulk loads and check on bulktms.com. give us a call, we'll give you a walkthrough. We're not trying to charge or upsell you on anything.
Jared Flinn:
We have this technology that is proven to work to help you manage your system. Everything from dispatching to collecting documents to invoicing to tracking trucks. It's all included in bulk tms. If you're a bulk load user, it's in simple lift to get hooked up and set up on bulk tms. So check out bulktms.com dot. There'll be a link below. We want to show you how it's done. Allow us to give you a demo.
Jared Flinn:
Check it out bulktms.com dot. God bless. And it's not, it's a little bit different though, you said. I mean, I think you told me, like, we're probably just because of our location and access to crude here versus some of these other locations describe, you know, even the intermountain area, you even talking about the southwest, I mean, it really changes.
Eric Wilmoth:
Like, for instance, Denver, Colorado is a market that is very poorly supplied or can be very poorly supplied in comparison to the mid continent region. Where we're at here in the midwest is very well supplied, a lot of refineries, very good pipeline networks, and just lost supply reliability. You get to Denver, Colorado, for instance. They've had a refinery closed in Cheyenne, Wyoming, which that had a lot of input into Denver. A lot of that product came south out of Cheyenne into Denver. There's one refinery in Denver, Suncor, and then everything else is either shipped in from El Dorado, Kansas, or Borger, and then McKee, Texas through the Valero and Phillips terminal refineries. And then you've got the Holly frontiers, or HF Sinclair refinery, El Dorado, Kansas, that ships product on into Denver as well. So that market can become very constrained because of pipeline space and lacquer refineries nearby.
Eric Wilmoth:
So, you know, all these petroleum products being shipped in the pipeline. For instance, Denver has a small pipe. It's a six inch pipe, six or eight inch pipe, which is small in the grand scheme of things. You're shipping, you know, gasoline first or whatever, shipping gasoline first. You know, then you're shipped, following it up with premium, then you're following it up with distillates, and you got avgas. There's all these products that have to be shipped to meet all the needs. And you get gasoline hung in the line. The tanks are full at the terminal, and you got to shut the line down.
Eric Wilmoth:
You lose all the flow and then you, so you lose all of your pipeline speed, and it takes a whole other cycle to get that sped back up and going again. So these schedulers have to, you know, the demand has to stay and, you know, reliable and raidable to be able to keep the pipeline as flowing as they need to be, get the product there on time and when it's needed. So if you get a batch shipped at the wrong time, you can really jam things up. And one of the biggest slowdowns of a pipeline is propane. So there are, like in the midwest, there's a lot of propane shipped on pipelines during the wintertime. And that absolutely kills the flow rate of the pipeline so it reduces by about half.
Jared Flinn:
Hmm. My, in preparation, this, I was telling my son, my twelve year old, about, we were gonna have this talk and he asked me this question I did not answer. He's like, well, how long are some of these pipelines? And is there, does it, is there when some of these pipelines, does every have to stop or is there some kind of lifting or push that pushes it?
Eric Wilmoth:
You know, that's a good question. I mean, there's lines that are, I mean, probably over a thousand miles.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, that's why, like some of these.
Eric Wilmoth:
There'S boost stations all along the way. They're usually not have to be, don't have to be used all that much because of the flow of product. So you can have, you know, 75,000 barrels of gasoline in the line and be starting on diesel next. And that constant pressure, it's like a siphon, right?
Jared Flinn:
Almost.
Eric Wilmoth:
Correct. Exactly.
Jared Flinn:
It's pushing and pulling.
Eric Wilmoth:
The whole pushes it on through. Now if you have, when propane goes through, it slows the batches way down and it takes a whole other cycle to get it back up and going again, which wintertime, it makes it very frustrating, but because that's when you can see some supply outages or supply disruptions because of the flow of the line being slower. But there are boost stations, lift stations, and there's a lot of junctions. You know, there'll be a line there where two lines meet and, you know, shoots off two different terminals. And yeah, they'll, you know, despite can click of a keyboard switch, they can open a valve and shut it and ship it down that line instead of this line.
Jared Flinn:
Wow. I want to move and talk a little bit about a little bit of the pricing of diesel, but, but more importantly, like, you know, where we are in Springfield, and I have another good friend, which I mentioned, Jamie Jordan. They own the signal fuel stops. And I've talked to her, but, you know, you all have these trucks that are delivering fuel. Deer stops are going and picking it up, but sometimes the refinery or the location just right up the road is not the cheapest source.
Eric Wilmoth:
Correct.
Jared Flinn:
Like, we've talked about this before. Sometimes I. You might have better pricing in St. Louis or Kansas City. I'm just spatting these off. But like what? Like, how does that make sense? I mean, I mean, think. Cause I mean, obviously you're figuring the rate of your transportation costs and all that, but like, you may have fuel just right out here from a refinery and. But now you're driving four or 5 hours northeast to get it.
Eric Wilmoth:
Interesting you mentioned that because last fall, last summer and last fall, the Chicago basis for petroleum products was ultra cheap on diesel. It was running at about a 50 cent a gallon discount to Nymex at times ran about a 50 cent a gallon.
Jared Flinn:
So explain that a little bit more.
Eric Wilmoth:
So Nymex is, say, NYmex is $2 today. The Chicago basis is a 50 cent discount. Diesel is $1.50. The group three, which is the mid continent, was trading at about a ten cent discount. So it was a 40 cent spread there. We basically hauled probably 60, 70% of our product for our travel centers out of St. Louis for about a six month period last year, which we have never done that before because never before has it happened. The mid continent is usually always the cheapest basis or close to it.
Eric Wilmoth:
But, you know, there's the Chicago basis, there's the Gulf coast, there's the group three. There's the Rockies. There is the southwest, there's the west coast. There's New York harbor. All these different bases that have their own regional input and supplied and supply dynamics. And the pricing varies because of that.
Jared Flinn:
It's no different than you have the Kansas City Board of Trade, Chicago board.
Eric Wilmoth:
Trade, one exact same space.
Jared Flinn:
It's the same thing.
Eric Wilmoth:
Exactly. Same concept.
Jared Flinn:
So when that happens, you can, you may be trucking it.
Eric Wilmoth:
Correct. I mean, there's been a lot of times we go to Little Rock to get gasoline. Summertime, it's not so much anymore because of ethanol being blended in the gasoline. Ethanol's got to be hauled out of northern Missouri to Little Rock, which adds to their input cost and the gasoline spreads. Aren't there as much as it used to be, but there are some. But now we, we've went, I mean, we've hauled, we've hauled Diesel out Chicago, I mean, out of Chicago to our truck stops before. We've hauled gasoline probably as far away as Shreveport, Louisiana.
Jared Flinn:
Wow.
Eric Wilmoth:
Would be about as probably as far as what? I mean, Memphis, Tennessee. But there's all those different. It gets really interesting whenever the mark, whenever the bases start to flip and get inverted and it really ramps up the supply dynamics.
Jared Flinn:
A lot of people don't understand this. And some people, well, I'll just say this. Some people think the truck stops are taking advantage of consumers. You know, see, diesel's going up, but there's a lot more behind the scenes talk about when you see the fluctuations in diesel prices. You know, what, what's really happening there? And is the fuel that you're filling up, is the fuel that was bought before or after that? Makes sense. Yeah.
Eric Wilmoth:
I mean, it's, it's a combination of both. I mean, the last ten days is a good example. Wholesale prices have probably been up $0.30 in the last ten days.
Jared Flinn:
So it's been gradually going down. Right.
Eric Wilmoth:
It had been. And you've, we've seen a kind of a spike here in the last ten days. Last week and a half, two weeks. The market's closed today for the holiday, but I mean, yesterday, Monday and Tuesday been up a little bit, kind of a couple cents. Not a whole lot. The biggest thing, I mean, we have a lot of storage to our facilities. We can store products longer than most places can. We each try to carry about a three day inventory.
Eric Wilmoth:
But, you know, the price, the supply part, the biggest thing when it comes to diesel prices anymore is with the mud flaps and all these fuel cards out there and all these programs out there, the sign price really means nothing for the most part. You know, it'll say, you know, today, our instance, our price is 359, but if you're on mud flap, you're fueling for 304 today.
Jared Flinn:
Can you explain that? Why is that?
Eric Wilmoth:
It's just based off of a opus average discount. So, like, our discount with Opus with mudflap is cost plus five. So it takes our cost plus five cents. And that's our disc, that's our discounted mud flap price today. And that's the majority of the majority of the diesel volume business is done around that level of margin now. And that's the reason the street price is so high, because that minute, you know, the little portion of business that is there is makes up for some of the lesser margin business now. But, you know, overall, I mean, I would say the average margin is probably around $0.10 maybe, at best.
Jared Flinn:
But aren't you driving more traffic to the fuel cards or the different apps than just dealing directly with those clients?
Eric Wilmoth:
We are. I mean, you're definitely, you see an influx of business because of those, because of the mud flaps and all those programs out there today. I would say, you know, for the owner operator, the best program you can be on is mudflap, hands down. I mean, it's. Mudflap has really changed the game and saved a lot of people a lot of money here in the last couple years.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, well, I remember, and I've had Sanjay, you know, one of the founders on my podcast, and actually we're at our book freight conference, so we got to actually meet him. Well, actually, I met him at Matt's too, but so I'm very for Mudflat, you know, but like, they really figured out this need to come out and cater to truckers that are filling up at the mom and pops and not the big mega truckers.
Eric Wilmoth:
And see, and Mudflab actually is taken at the majority of locations. They sign a deal with Ta and Petro. They've got the quick trips and the cases of the world now. So there's a lot. It's a. They've branched out a lot in the last 24 months, um, locations wise, because originally it was set up, it was the mom and pops. Um, but, you know, the biggest thing with the mud flaps of the world is it's, it's enabled these people to be able to sustain the mark freight market where it is right now. I mean, it's changed.
Eric Wilmoth:
It's been able to prolong a lot of heartache with the poor rates.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah. So back on that, just I want to kind of get clarity on the pricing so, you know, the wholesale price you guys are looking at every day.
Eric Wilmoth:
Absolutely.
Jared Flinn:
And then your basin price at the pump basin on what you can fill up, you know, what's your price to buy that fuel today, what that replacement is.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah.
Jared Flinn:
And then really the difference in the fluctuation price is really the up and down of that wholesale price.
Eric Wilmoth:
Correct.
Jared Flinn:
Correct. What about. I mean, just thinking, I mean, obviously you have competitors on every side of you. Are you looking at those competitors, looking to see where they are? And if somebody's got something priced down two pennies, are you going to try to compete against that or on street price?
Eric Wilmoth:
I mean, we're basically following whatever loves does. If love is 353, loves always takes a penny spot on everybody. So if loves is 358 or 359.
Jared Flinn:
Hmm.
Eric Wilmoth:
That was like a penny spot.
Jared Flinn:
Why is that?
Eric Wilmoth:
I don't know. Just a. Some pricing strategy, I would assume they've taken over the years, and they just have always done that.
Jared Flinn:
Interesting.
Eric Wilmoth:
Yeah.
Jared Flinn:
I want to go back and talk about, when we talk about some of these companies that you've been a part of, your family's built and sold over the years, you made mention that you guys are very customer first.
Eric Wilmoth:
Absolutely.
Jared Flinn:
Customer was a customer employee.
Eric Wilmoth:
It's our, the hierarchy goes customer employee and then ownership. That's, that's our hierarchy.
Jared Flinn:
And then some of these companies that you've dealt with or even sold to, they change that structure.
Eric Wilmoth:
Yeah, I mean, we, and, you know, we've seen if the structures change, you know, where things, the, how we operate a business has changed. And those go, those, the stars don't quite align. I would say, you know, it's just a different model. You know, they've got different, you know, business model. They have to meet investors. They've got a please and stuff like that.
Jared Flinn:
But. And just to reiterate, so you guys.
Eric Wilmoth:
Customer, customer employee ownership.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, I think that. I love that. I recently read this book where basically the owner was saying, hey, we're going to take care of the customer first, because when we take care of the customer, the employees are going to be taken care of.
Eric Wilmoth:
Correct.
Jared Flinn:
But if you have a mentality that employees first and the customer doesn't get taken care of and then down the.
Eric Wilmoth:
Road, you're absolutely correct. If there's not a customer, there's no need for an employee and there's no need for ownership.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah. I mean, I think that was almost like a Sam Walton ism. I mean, Walmart. I mean, take care of the customers.
Eric Wilmoth:
And everybody, and they'll take care of you. You take care of your customers. Treat them with respect, treat them right and you make a customer for life.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, we didn't mention on this, but yeah, I mean, you guys are in the bulk game as too. I mean, bulk fuel, but also hoppers and dumps. Talk a little bit about.
Eric Wilmoth:
We do have a few hoppers. We're on a few hoppers right now. I am very unknowledgeable when it comes to the hopper side of things in the transportation world. You know, we're just out there running wholesome stuff for Austin Hammond. That's mainly what we're holding to right now. But I'm pretty unknowledgeable when it comes to the hopper world.
Jared Flinn:
A couple in dumps.
Eric Wilmoth:
Couple and dumps, yeah, we hauled for a couple of. For one customer that we did some business with. Pull a couple of indoms and that's, you know, been a whole new world. The hopper and end dump world is completely different than what we've been used to doing in the petroleum realm.
Jared Flinn:
So the trucks are fleet today with, you know, between the hoppers end up and then the fuel trucks alone.
Eric Wilmoth:
Yeah.
Jared Flinn:
How many is that?
Eric Wilmoth:
Twelve.
Jared Flinn:
Okay, then you mentioned that everything. 389.
Eric Wilmoth:
389 peterbilts.
Jared Flinn:
Nice.
Eric Wilmoth:
Yeah.
Jared Flinn:
Probably have drivers lined up.
Eric Wilmoth:
Oh, yeah. We've been very blessed with our drivers. The majority of them have drove with us for a long time. We've got a couple of them that are sons of former drivers. Sons of drivers now. But, you know, been very fortunate with the drivers we've got and have been able to retain keep over the years.
Jared Flinn:
I definitely don't want to end on a negative note, but you brought up that you guys get a really good pulse on what the industry is doing just by the fuel consumption.
Eric Wilmoth:
Absolutely.
Jared Flinn:
And the fuel, I mean, fuel consumption is down, but talk about that and probably being down since you guys have seen a long time. I mean, at pretty low levels, it's.
Eric Wilmoth:
Pretty tough right now. I mean, I would say it's definitely down a third from the peak of COVID for the post Covid demand or Covid demand. It's definitely down a third. Which, I mean, it's. I mean, you can just see it day in day. I mean, it's. It's. I'm going to say it's probably.
Eric Wilmoth:
It's definitely right now, the worst it's been. It's def. Volume wise is. I'm going to say we're at the lowest volumes we've been at since the peak. You know, I don't see anything changing for a little while either. Not try to be negative and answer, but I don't think, I don't see anything changing for the next six months with it being election year. It's just, there's nobody very excited to do anything right now.
Jared Flinn:
You know, we're talking just a set group of truckers, you know, bolt guys, hoppers end up and all that. So we're not seeing a the whole market, but you are, I mean, you're filling up trucks, these guys, anybody pulling up from drive in to reefer.
Eric Wilmoth:
But like, what are you, the drive in reaper?
Jared Flinn:
What are you hearing from these guys? What do you, I mean, what are some of the stories they're telling you about the market right now?
Eric Wilmoth:
I mean, there's a lot, I can't tell how many guys I hear just said, I'm just coming home empty. I'm not, I'm not going to haul a load for a dollar and just not going to do it. They're just coming home empty. I mean, there's a lot of trick. There's a lot of trucks right now, you're seeing that are, you know, bouncing any, you know, that may have been bouncing two years ago, 50 miles or 100 miles, they're bouncing 500 miles to go find something that's even worth hauling. And you're seeing there's a lot of deadhead miles right now to find anything that's worthwhile doing.
Jared Flinn:
Are some of those residual reoccurring guys, I mean, not coming anymore, are you?
Eric Wilmoth:
Some, some, I mean, there's definitely some, some people that have had to change, you know, their lanes are hauling stuff like that. But yeah, you're hearing a lot of people saying, no, the drive in and reefer rates are terrible. Yeah, they're terrible.
Jared Flinn:
Well, I mean, it's the truth. The truth. You can't put a, you know, no, can't dress it up or disguise, you know, what the, what the reality is. And I told you the podcast before this with member, but John Riley was just talking about, you know, the head of BMO bank. You know, this guy's been in 37 years and said this is probably the roughest that he's seen it. I mean, like, this is rougher than 2000, whatever. 16, 17, 22,008, obviously 2001. I mean, yeah, so this has been a, this has been a whammy in the industry.
Eric Wilmoth:
It's going to cull out the weekend.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah. Kind of laying the plane here. What do you see the future is for multmuth companies. I mean, as far as growing the business, growing transportation fleet or truck stops.
Eric Wilmoth:
I would say definitely more truck stops on the horizon. You know, want to get our feet underneath this at the new location and let things, let the environment, the economy settle out a little bit of, um, definitely, you know, definitely focus on growth. Um, you know, we're very conservative company. I mean, if, if we don't go out and borrow money, if we can't pay for it, we're not doing it. So everything we're doing is we're financing internally. So definitely very conservative in that aspect. I see us growing in the future. And what part of the business that's in, I'm not really sure right now.
Eric Wilmoth:
I would say, you know, probably, I'm gonna say probably in the retail aspect, probably more of our growth strategy right now. We see, you know, there's a need for high quality travel centers to serve cus, to serve our customers, serve the professional drivers on a day in, day out basis. And there's a need for that that's not being filled. And that's probably where I would see the growth at.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, yeah, it just, in my mind, it seems like, especially in this corridor, but, man, we've got a lot of these. I mean, more and more of these travel centers popping up.
Eric Wilmoth:
It's definitely being oversaturated.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah. So, yeah, it just seems like the competitive landscape has increased.
Eric Wilmoth:
It has.
Jared Flinn:
But it creates opportunity for those. I mean, you're now bringing in more. I mean, there's this corridor, the amount of truck traffic through there, but it definitely prints the opportunity to set yourself apart from these other travel centers.
Eric Wilmoth:
I don't know the exact statistics of it, but Interstate 44, speaking about this corridor has to be one of the busiest interstate corridors in the country, great tonnage wise.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, well, somebody told me because 44 is one of the few interstates, east to west, east to west, and really north to south. If you think it's because it's going.
Eric Wilmoth:
If you're coming out of Texas, going to Canada or going north, come at 44. If you're going east or west, you come across 44.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah. And I actually wanted to make mention of this. This is just going to be a side note. We'll kind of close out of here, but like, you also kind of a sister company, but you actually hoods up the road. That's kind of a family company or sister company of yours and which is one of the largest truck stops for livestock trucks. So, I mean, if listeners that are familiar with this area probably know that, but I found that fascinating.
Eric Wilmoth:
Yeah. My great uncle Paul Cahood, the owner hood. But him, Paul K is my grandma's brother.
Jared Flinn:
Okay.
Eric Wilmoth:
So. But no, they have a tremendous following with the agricultural based customer base there. And they. That is the cattle hauler fuel stop right there.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, that's cool, man. I mean, you're a generational. But then also, it drifts horizontally, too with your family. So this is amazing. So, Eric, man, I just want to thank you for coming in the studio. You're also a boatloads member, man. We appreciate you being a member on both loads. Obviously, some of the companies you work with, or some of our other members as well, so we've kind of gotten connected through that.
Jared Flinn:
But, man, I always love hearing this side of the business. Some people don't see the other side, and I hope we brought a little bit of clarity to even talk about the transparency of fuel stops. And I think most people realize that, but sometimes when you see that price going up, you just think that somebody's on the backside patting their pocket. And that's not necessary for sure, but awesome. Hey, thank you very much for coming in.
Eric Wilmoth:
Thank you.
Jared Flinn:
Appreciate it.
Eric Wilmoth:
Appreciate it.
Jared Flinn:
Tyler. I think we just scratched the surface on a little bit about the fuel industry, but even Wilmouth enterprises, and we didn't even talk about it, but they also have a huge ranch, I think, over in Mount Vernon. It was really cool to hear, like, how big the ranch is. I think it's Angus cattle. And you were just showing me that. Eric's dad, we're pretty sure, who actually works out on the fuel island, actually gets pictures of a lot of these carriers.
Tyler Allison:
Brent, if you go on his facebook and you should be able to find him. But Brent Wilmot, he actually posts every single truck. It looks like every single truck that stops in and fuels up there, he actually put takes pictures of the rigs, posts online, and just thanks them for stopping by and seeing them. So it's just such a small thing that probably doesn't take him a whole lot of time, but, like, it means so much. I mean, whenever you're a customer.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, well, it's one thing we've been doing on a lot of our customer visits is getting those photos out there, and we do it again to show other people. But I think there's a sense of trust when you're getting a picture with somebody. Obviously, if you're getting a picture, like, you're not going to hopefully hate that person.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah. And I think we're kind of in the same space where, you know, they've kind of recognized, same as us, like, we're. They're probably not in the fuel business or not in, you know, the load board business, but the hospitality.
Jared Flinn:
Hospitality.
Tyler Allison:
We're here to serve people.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, that's super good. So. Well, cool. Well, Eric, thanks for coming on. Oh yeah, by the way, he's a scratch golfer from what I've heard. I think he played in college in front. Yeah, I heard he is just an amazing golfer. So hopefully we'll get to golf with them or some of our guys that are scratch golfers will get to golf with Eric.
Jared Flinn:
But yeah, Eric, thanks again for coming on. While we're on the subject of fuel, a lot of people, if you're new to bulk loads or maybe haven't heard, one of our sister companies, smart freight funding, is our factoring arm, but we offer fuel cards through that service. So if you ever want, we would be glad to show you our fuel card options. I think there's two, I think maybe even three different options, but we really have different fuel cards that are tailored to your business. And again, this is one thing I'll say for sure. I think Eric highlighted this, but like in today's age, you gotta be using a fuel card. It's just that all these fuel stops have just really adopted that process and really companies are out there gaining market share by fuel cards, I mean these different fuel card companies. So like without a doubt you ought to be using a fuel card and really maybe have a couple in your, a couple different ones.
Jared Flinn:
That way you can kind of shop it around and get those discounts.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah, I was present to hear him say, like, you shouldn't be paying what the sign says, like the sign price, you shouldn't be, you know, just because they have all these resources to use today.
Jared Flinn:
I think it's no different in retail. You go to some of these stores that always have sales. We're not, you're not even going to shop there unless there's a sale. I mean, it's the exact same premise on that. So yeah, get ahold of us, smartfreightfunding.com, there's a link on bulk loads, but yeah, definitely check out our fuel card. And then speaking of too smart freight, right now we know cash is king. Money is slow, money is tight. Use smart freight funding, we can get you set up instantly.
Jared Flinn:
We have a lot of companies getting set up and not just, I mean, two, three truck operators, but 2050 truck companies. We've really developed a system again, right now we can get your money faster and really cheaper than anywhere else. So check out smartfreightfunding.com dot we'd love to get you a setup on that. So one thing too. You know, the economy, we've been talking again, sometimes these podcasts seem a little doom and gloom because we're talking about how slow the economy is, failures, bankruptcies, and stuff like that. But one glimmer that we've just recently noticed is we're actually starting to see a climb of loads on the board.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah. And that's what whenever we look and analyze, try to analyze some of the data, like over the past, especially 2023, going into 2024, we've were averaging kind of 18,000, 19,000 loads on bulk loads, and they just kind of hovered there. But whenever we looked at the data today, really, we're seeing around 30,000 loads on the actual load board and we're seeing it climb. So I think that has to do with multiple things happening. But we talked about there's a lot of carriers exiting the market right now. And so, like you said, I think it's a positive look of the market kind of starting to adjust and correct itself with more freight becoming available. Unfortunately, carriers are having to exit the market, but that should adjust rates to as well.
Jared Flinn:
Specifically on bulk, we got wheat harvest is still moving pretty hot and heavy, but I think weed harvest is really looking good. But fall crops are really shaping good, uh, especially in the midwest. We've had some really good rainfalls. So I think a lot of predictions are we're going to have a good fall harvest, which means all old crops got to get moved. They got storage for the new fall crop. So I think that's putting a little bit more pressure on, especially our guys in the bulk industry. So we think that's getting load counts up there and surely but slowly rates going up that follows. So yeah, yeah.
Jared Flinn:
Again, if you haven't been on bulk loads in a while, check it out. Um, maybe your subscription had lapsed. We can get you set up anytime. And quite frankly, I'll say this, if you need to just look around for a little bit, get ahold of our guys, we can get you a sneak peek, have you look at some loads if you want to see that. But we can get you reactivated anytime. Just, uh, get ahold of
[email protected]. or call us and we'll get you.
Tyler Allison:
Yeah, I know some guys have even emailed and just said, hey, you know, you know, I'm running out of Kansas City, Missouri looking for some hopper loads or whatever. You know, I don't know if I want to start my subscription or whatever. And our guys have actually sent them screenshots of some of the freight on the board saying, hey, I think this is going to work for you. And then they get them started. So there our team is more than happy to let you know kind of what's on the board before you actually get on.
Jared Flinn:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, cool. Well, that kind of does it for us. You said was it last week? Did there's some guys went up to the jamboree, didn't they?
Tyler Allison:
Yep. Yeah, they did. And also the rigs at the run in Oklahoma, we got, had a few folks there.
Jared Flinn:
Oh, nice. Well, yeah, Joe, show some of those pictures for the guys that went to those, man, that'd be awesome to showcase them. So cool. Last but not least, one thing we like to do for our community is pray for those out there. We had a prayer request just this morning for it was a fatality unfortunately in the industry and man, praying for that family and people that are involved in that one. But if you have a prayer request, anything with your business related, family related, community related, you name it, health condition, we would love to be praying for you. All you need to do is send a email to prayer oakloads.com and we keep that anonymous and here in the office and allow us to pray for you and those people out there. And even if you know somebody in trouble or someone that needs prayer, send that to us as well.
Jared Flinn:
We'd love to pray for them. So cool. You want to close us out today?
Tyler Allison:
Lord, we just come to you today and just thank you and praise you. Lord, we just thank you all for, for all your many blessings. Lord, we just lift up anybody out there who's going through any struggling times right now, Lord, with just any natural, natural disasters, with the hurricane going on, Lord, or any of the flooding, people affected by that, Lord, we just ask a special blessing over those who are traveling every day and moving goods across America. Lord, we just ask that you just keep them safe, Lord. And you just bless those who look upon you and call upon you. Lord, we ask that you just answer those prayers. And Lord, we ask that no matter who we deal with and who we talk to, Lord, they always know that we serve the kingdom of God. Lord, we love you and we thank you.
Tyler Allison:
Amen.
Jared Flinn:
Thank you. Thank you as always for listening to the bulk loads podcast. If you haven't yet, if you look down in the lower left hand corner, there's a little subscribe button. Don't forget to subscribe. And if you could do us just one small favor, we take a lot of time and energy producing these podcasts. Man, if you could share this on your social media and your platform, that would mean the world to us. Just click share in the button and send it to your platform. And man, we would thank you very much for repaying that back to us.
Jared Flinn:
Thank you as always and God blessed.
