Buying and Selling Grain Companies

Dusty Clevenger: You're listening to the B Floats podcast. Jared Flinn: Your number one resource for everything bold freight trucking. Hey, guys. Jared Flynn with the Bulk Loads podcast. Got Tyler with me. Tyler: What's going on? Jared Flinn: Well, as we do every week, let's start with a beautiful truck photo. Tyler: Yep. So today we have a Tammy page with West Wind Transport out of Hilbert, Wisconsin. West Wind, they have been with us since 2020, so four years now. And Heath was the driver that actually took this photo. So you can see he got the truck all shined up at the truck wash, pulled it out and it' clean and he snapped that photo. It's a pretty sharp rig. Jared Flinn: Yeah, it's a really cool photo. It's. It's almost. It looks like 3D. I can't with that truck wash in the back. Tyler: Yeah, the contrast of the, like the properly pops out. Jared Flinn: Yeah. So I mean, that's probably one of the reasons why they wanted to feature this, which. Yeah, really cool. Yeah, I love the red lights underneath. Tyler: Yeah, it looks good. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. Tyler: I like the rigs that are lit up. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Awesome. Dusty Clevenger: Cool. Jared Flinn: Well, thanks for sending that in, Tammy. If you would like to get featured as a truck photo, please send photos to podcastolkloads.com or anywhere on social media. You can send it to us and we would love to get you all featured on here. It's one of the coolest things that we can do to showcase your truck and share it out there. Speaking of trucks, I just. For semi Sam, we've been promoting this pumpkin haul. I did a reading or narration last week. You can go to our YouTube channel and check that out if you have kids that want to watch it. Jared Flinn: Happy to send a book as well, but we've talked about this for a while. Actually doing some narrations I was a little uncomfortable doing at first, but I think it worked out really well. Tyler: So, yeah, I did. Jared Flinn: I thought when we first started talking about I was going to like sit like next to a fire with a pipe reading, you know. Tyler: That's the next one. Jared Flinn: Yeah, the next one. But yeah, you can check it out on there. But also for some. I see him. I did a forum post if you've seen that. But we're looking for creative characters that we can add to our next story. We're thinking about doing an Easter story, but we want to add a couple new characters. I had a couple people. Jared Flinn: People respond. But if you have a creative idea, maybe it's even just something like your company that we can put in there, send it to us. I would love to get that on There, I think. Yeah, it'd be pretty cool. Tyler: Yeah. Jared Flinn: What about Big Rig Brandy? Tyler: I don't know about that one. I'd have to see an illustration. Jared Flinn: I want to do a female character, but you got to be careful. I don't want it to like Big Brandy. You know, you can't be like, you. Tyler: Got to do a broker character. Jared Flinn: Snubbino Sally. That might not so, but yes, send that in. We'd love to. It's just something fun. We do and we get to gift these out to kids. So first off, if you'd like a copy, reach out to us. Happy to send a copy and gift that to you. We still have several. Jared Flinn: Several hundred left in store. But yeah, send us some ideas. Tyler: Yeah. Or if you have the ideas, drop down below in the comments. Come with those headed over to our forum as well and you can comment on that forum post or simply email in. Jared Flinn: Awesome. Well, today's guest, I'm going to bring on a friend of mine, Dusty Clevenger. He is with Ascendant Partners and are a private equity firm. I have had just a fascination, I don't know if I think this started maybe 20 years ago, of just learning private equity and the process of companies that buy and sell businesses. I don't know why, but it's just fascinating of how all that works. And sometimes it looks like it could be an easy task. But then there's, you know, our bank, for example, they just bought these western banks and I forget how many hundreds of locations by looking at, like, how does that. Yeah, it just seems like it's a huge task. Tyler: Yeah, there's a lot that goes. It's an interesting model. And so what Dusty talks about, and I think it relates to trucking because a lot of people, they want to know, like, how can they get, you know, like, what are the steps to exit their business if they need to sell their business or get acquired or, you know, what does. What that process looks like. Jared Flinn: Or I would say right now there might be some opportunities to acquire businesses. So how do those processes work? So we're going to talk about that on this podcast. Dusty, actually, we kind of went down memory lane and this, this is more my era, but he worked with ADM and then went to Gavalon and then started another company. But I can remember, like seeing him from the sidelines as these companies, as Gavalon kind of got spun out of ConAgra, Debruce Green got acquired by them and then AgSpring. But Dusty's going to talk about that. I think it's just a really cool story. You're going to be really fascinating to hear kind of how his take on it from the inside and how all that worked. So with that said, here is my conversation with my good friend Dusty Clevenjo. Jared Flinn: Dusty, thanks for joining. Dusty Clevenger: Absolutely. Jared Flinn: Good to be here. Yeah. Well, we met this summer at a family camp just down here in Branson. And actually there was another mutual connection, Scott Walker, which he's been on the show but introduced us. And you known him from working with him. Yeah. But yeah, we hit it off. It's great when you go to events like that and then you meet another. Jared Flinn: For me, it's either someone in agriculture or someone in trucking and then you find that connection and you get to talking to them the whole week. But I had a great, it was just a great experience at family camp, meeting you and your family. But you got a great story and ironically, like you were. We kind of were working a little bit together back in the past, but didn't even know it with some of these other companies. But start us off right there, like talk about your beginnings. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. So sure. It's great to be here, Jared. Thank you. Yeah. My career, it's been a Plinko board. I never would have guessed that when I launched from university that I'd end up at this spot of the board. It's been, you know, one thing after the other. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. You know, raised in Nebraska, I'm a farm kid. Cut from the same cloth, you know, which is a great thing globally. I know that means something to people in the ag community. Yeah. You know, I did spend time with adm. I kind of got my, my foundation and ag and trading commodities with adm. It was great. Dusty Clevenger: I was in oilseed crush plants in Arkansas and Missouri and Illinois. And then with adm, ended up doing global business development. Kind of fell into it by accident. Didn't plan to get there, but kind of started to understand putting a story together and doing a deal, you know, kind of why do you expand something or why do you and buy this or sell that? And ADM gave me a chance to do that in Brazil and Europe and North America. A great experience. Problem was I was traveling all the time and travel wasn't easy travel. It was like overnight long haul flights. And I was like, you know, I kind of want to be a little closer to home. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. So I left ADM, went to ConAgra to become Gabilon, moved to Omaha, kind of back to the Cornhusker State, which for us was a move Home, had our kids there, and really got to see private equity come into the ag space in a big way with Gavilon. Yeah. So I got to learn kind of what the New York private equity guys do and what the grain company Gavilon did and got to be a part of putting that together, which was a ton of fun. Was there for four years. Did the sale to Maribeni, and kind of saw that process go. And I thought, you know, I kind of want to do this for myself. And I had the good fortune to find a couple of partners that moved to Kansas City. Dusty Clevenger: We put together a business. We bought seven companies in about 18 months, put those together all in grain handling, sold those and kind of took some time and got into some other fun things. I did some barbecue stuff for a while. I did some safety supply things for a while. Kind of when Covid hit, I was in the safety business, which was a great place to be, and everybody needed N95 masks and hand sanitizer. We had it. So we got to see that movie. And then ended up a couple years ago at a boutique investment bank called Ascendant Partners. Dusty Clevenger: And really kind of doing the same kind of thing I've always done just now for myself on behalf of other clients, which has been a ton of fun to be able to get to that place. Jared Flinn: I want to kind of go back. And that was a great recap of it all. And going back to kind of ConAgra selling to Marubini, the Gavilan, because that's what I found was fascinating because it was. Was it Greg Heckman? Dusty Clevenger: Greg Heckman, yeah. Jared Flinn: Because he was kind of the one that kind of led that. And you work with him on. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. Jared Flinn: Can you. I guess this is, for me, selfish. I've always had just a fascination like, how does that even work? Like, when you're. We're going through that process, first off, spinning a company out of ConAgra. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. Jared Flinn: And then getting, you know, getting the funds and everything. It sounds like just a huge task of where do you start? Dusty Clevenger: And, well, a lot of it is, you know, proper prior planning and kind of having an idea where you want to get to. And then there's a good. A good dose of luck in there too, for sure. So with. With the whole Gavil on ConAgra spin out, you know, the ConAgra trade group was a trade group around the branded part of ConAgra. Kind of a square peg and a round hole to some degree. With ConAgra in the commodity risk is different than the CPG risk so carving that out really created an opportunity for that business to flourish as a grain handling company, which is what Gavilan was. So bringing the private equity in to see the opportunity to put a dollar in and get more than a dollar out later through that growth is the whole thesis. Dusty Clevenger: So when I got there, that carve out had happened. And so our job was really try to figure out who do we want to be when we grow up as a company and what is the market going to reward us to become. There's only so many buyers when you get to be a multibillion dollar grain company. Right. So who are those buyers? So that was kind of on our list. And what are they going to look for? What kind of platform would they value? And certainly where Gavilan was at the time was too small and fragmented for who we were going to go after. So we needed to fill in the gaps of the map and fill in the gaps of the business model. So a lot of my job was filling in those gaps and kind of identifying them, finding opportunities. Dusty Clevenger: We did some greenfield construction projects like Altus Oklahoma was a new project. We built, bought a few businesses and then Debruce Green was one of the big one was debruce. So at the end, once we kind of put Debruce's footprint over the Gavlon footprint, it kind of completed the map. So we worked with Paul and Larry and their team to get the Debruce business bought and merged into Gavilon. And then we were complete and we were ready to go to market. And so then you start that process of again, there's a handful of buyers who are going to be interested and you kind of invite them all to the party and they kind of see what's there and go through your process and who's got the best value and the best terms and then you close it. And then with Maribane, because they own Columbia Grain, there was a bit of an overlap there that took some extra time for DOJ to go through there. Anti competition work, which we worked through that and then, yeah, the transaction closed and was successful. Jared Flinn: I can remember when, because I was still at Bartlett Grain. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. Jared Flinn: When Debruce sold. And I never got to meet Paul debruce, but he like got his feet wet at Bartlett. If I can remember right, he worked there before kind of starting to Bruce Green and really built, I mean, from my lens, just a super successful company. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. Was he? Jared Flinn: And maybe you can answer this. Not answer what, like did he even have that? Or like did he have thoughts of selling that or was that something that you all approached him? Dusty Clevenger: You know, I think. I think a lot of people had seen what Paul. Paul and Larry had built. Paul was definitely the. Jared Flinn: They grew so fast. Dusty Clevenger: It seemed like, you know, Larry was a commodity guy. He was the integrator, you know, in that whole thing. And I know a lot of people would approach them about, we see value in how to Bruce does business. And your cross country program was great. Jared Flinn: Phenomenal. Yeah. Always competing with him on Trump. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. And, you know, we saw that at Gavilan. That was something that we really liked to. We want to take some of that and put it into the Gavilan model. How can we do that piece too? You know, certainly there had to be some kind of an event where, you know, what happens with Debruce, you know, eventually, you know, Paul and Larry want to retire and what happens to this thing? And I think there was probably, you know, a couple of paths. You know, they could kind of hand it to some employees to some degree, or find a strategic buyer. And they didn't approach us, we approached them. And it was really that value proposition of how do you make what you've got started here, Paul and Larry, into something that's much better and bigger with the Gabilon. Dusty Clevenger: And so they started to nod along with that and through a lot of discussion. And, you know, Paul was a key part of a lot of that work with Gavel and even Post Close. You know, he was very involved in all of that. We just, I think the full team, including them, saw as a good place for their employees to kind of end up long term. So when we start to merge leadership teams, kind of taking the best of both worlds and try to put those together, that was the task. But I know that there's a lot that approached them and we were the ones who got lucky enough to make them part of what we were doing at Gavilan. Jared Flinn: I wanted to spin back a little bit and just for our audience and we get. We have viewership from all over the country, all different types of businesses, but not just trucking, but trading and all the above. But though for. For people that don't know what exactly what is private equity? Like, if you can really explain that to people that may not know we've heard it. But like, what. What. What's private equity? Or what are those companies that. That are a private equity group? Dusty Clevenger: Yeah, sure. So private equity, just basically it's. It's a group of money that is private money. It could be from wealthy families, from family offices, could be from Pension funds could be different funds that manage money on behalf of someone that goes into private investments. And they can be small or very large. So private equity is really kind of an umbrella term that has all types of flavors of different kinds of equity, different kinds of goals and objectives. Some are short term and really focused on high risk, high return. Some are more long term, some are focused. Dusty Clevenger: Lot of them that we talked to at Ascendant are focused on the agribusiness infrastructure or land or just trends along the food or renewable fuel supply chain. They kind of like that thesis and they want to find opportunities to invest there. But it is just money pooled from private sources, either large individual offices or lots of smaller individuals that are pooled together into a group. Jared Flinn: And these people that are involved, like the investors in private equity funds, obviously the most times they're doing that because they have confidence or they want. They think that money can be better used and get a better return on it. Dusty Clevenger: Right. Jared Flinn: In private equity. Dusty Clevenger: Right, right. Jared Flinn: Okay. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah, yeah. And they, you know, they have professional management, so, you know, they're going to say, gosh, I could manage this money through these tools. I can give it to the professional. Jerry is my private equity manager, and he's got these tools and access to all these new things. And so, yeah, through that management, through a private equity, they have exposure, different types of opportunities they could find on their own. Jared Flinn: Okay. Dusty Clevenger: A lot of them are the kind of things that we find at Ascendant and we try to plug them into. Through that. Jared Flinn: Yeah, I want to move on to, I mean, kind of that next entry. But like, when you talk about private equity, and ironically, I was just talking to a gentleman last night. He's in the trucking space, but companies for it was bought by this private equity firm. And he was actually a little more upset because he said the company, we used to be very customer focused. Now we're just growth focused. Can you talk about that, though? Because I think that's what scares a lot of people. Like, when you talk private equity, sometimes it's got a negative connotation, like, hey, it's all about grow, grow, grow, then selling it out for a big number. Everybody gets their money. Jared Flinn: And, like, sometimes maybe you lose the heart of why the business started in the first place. Dusty Clevenger: Right. Great question. And something that, you know, I've seen a lot in my career, particularly in ag, particularly when you deal with typically, you know, businesses that are started by or owned by a family and they're thinking about a transition and they have that legacy that's Very important to them. You know, I grew up in a small town in Nebraska. From a family business, I get legacy. There's definitely different types of private equity in terms of how they handle those things. At the end of the day, the objective is to make money. But there's always kind of other objectives for some of these guys that aren't as important but close to. Dusty Clevenger: So doing good for the long term. And sometimes that doing good means you have to be financially sustainable, of course. But how do you honor that legacy in the community? How do you build on it? How do you take friction out of the system that just makes people's lives better, that happens to create a return, but it's making people's lives better somehow. There are private equity funds, firms that think that way and there are some that are, to your point, very focused on growth. And I'm going to look at the spreadsheet and I'm going to spreadsheet everything and kind of the people are a commodity that I can rotate in and out of it. And I think a reason that sometimes people come to ascendant is to help filter through that noise because we see all of them and there's a role for all of them. Sometimes you want that spreadsheet hard nose. I want to grow for the sake of everything growth. Dusty Clevenger: And other times you're like, hey, my legacy is the important thing and I'll take a smaller check for the benefit of knowing my legacy is protected. And again we see all those kinds and I think more and more there's a trend, it seems like especially an ag towards the kind of long term community focus, treat the human well part while we make a good return. I think that's increasingly important because that's kind of where the competitive zone is now for investors. And there's more. I mean honestly today I think there's more investors looking for opportunities and opportunities looking for investors. And so that supply and demand has kind of forced them to get a little bit more towards that. The human side of the equation. Jared Flinn: Yeah, that's good. I want to get this in. We got lots cover. We're going to get all this in, I promise. But you went on though, talk about the next kind of stage as COO ad spring. But it seemed like that company and I can remember when that started. I remember meeting Randy Linville and Brett Clark and going up there and Leeward and visit with him. But that was kind of something just seemed like fun and exciting and getting this thing off the ground. Jared Flinn: You were the COO, right? Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. @ the End I was, but you were there. Jared Flinn: I mean, that was just finding these companies to bring and build. Yeah, I guess for me, I just have a fascination with that. I was just like, I was like, I was kind of like looking back, just watching you all do this, which was. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah, cool. It was, it was, it was an idea. And really we had an idea and some financial backing and a blank whiteboard to go out and kind of build a business. And the idea and the vision was really, you know, from Randy Linville, with his background in ag, he kind of saw the landscape very clearly. Yeah. Through a church connection, he met Brad Clark, who was new to ag because. Jared Flinn: He was a Sprint guy. If I remember. Dusty Clevenger: He was a Sprint guy. He was a Navy guy, he's a lawyer. And he just brings so many different perspectives and all the old rules of thumb that we had. He challenged all of them, which was very healthy. So those two had put together this idea of Ag Spring. And their financial backer used to be my boss at adm. And so he introduced me to these guys and said, hey, you kind of need somebody to be the boots on the ground to go out and kind of find stuff. And so the. Dusty Clevenger: It was the three of us and we kind of grew from there with the idea that there are these kind of niches in the ag space where somebody could come in and build really kind of a portfolio of different individual operating units that share a common corporate infrastructure to reduce their cost and continue to do well that need capital to either do some growth or do something. And we can help them with that capital and kind of fix their, fix the next level of growth for them. So we, you know, we had our whiteboard and we had ideas and we just hit the road. Jared Flinn: You were out there bird dogging. Dusty Clevenger: We just knocked on doors. Hey, you know, I'm dusty from Ag Spring. That's what we're up to. GB interest selling your company. And I mean, it was almost that simple. Jared Flinn: I kind of feel like a lot of it would be, you know, somebody's like, no, no, we're good. But then kind of like if somebody wants to buy your house or your farm. Yeah, I know I'm not, it's not for sale. But then you kind of maybe kind of just, you know, start, you started. Dusty Clevenger: To think about it. Jared Flinn: You start thinking about it and then you come back, well, maybe that's not, maybe that's not a bad idea. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. And for us it was, you know, you kind of think about the private equity approach. So we could very much feel like private Equity going into that small town. Because here's this guy, you know, he said he's got some money, wants to buy this thing. Okay, what are you going to do with it? So what was really important for us is, you know, we're from the space, we're cut from the same cloth. You know, I understand. You know, our first, our first acquisitions were in northeast Louisiana and southeast Arkansas. And so we met some business owners there and we kind of targeted that zone because cotton acres had been reducing corn and soybean acres had been increasing. Dusty Clevenger: Grain handling infrastructure was inadequate. So we saw there's probably a gap here. You have family owned businesses or small, a small co op that doesn't have a lot of money to put up a bunch of grain storage and everything it takes to handle corn and soy versus cotton. So we showed up and our story was very much one of we want to put together something here that honors your collective legacy for everything you and your family have done in the region where your name stays on the side of the elevator, our money can come in and help expand to meet your farm or your customer's needs. And we take all of the back office stuff that nobody really likes to do and we're going to do that for you at a lower cost. And so that was kind of our pitch. And if you're interested in that, then we got a few seats at the table and love for you to take one. And it took time. Dusty Clevenger: They didn't say yes or even maybe on the first visit. But after time like you said, it kind of started to resonate with them. And then once we got one to say I'm in, then that kind of started the momentum and you know, we bought three there, put them together and, and they chose the name Big River Rice and Grain is what we. I remember that chose it. We made a logo, we put it on there. And a lot of the, the growth was their growth. We didn't tell them what to do. They kind of said this is what we want to do and this is why. Dusty Clevenger: And we, our job was just to be the conduit to get the money there and, and help make it better. And then we did one in Idaho, we did one in, in North Dakota and then we built. Jared Flinn: Was there Artesian? Dusty Clevenger: It was, yeah. Jared Flinn: Thresher. Dusty Clevenger: It's crazy. I remember Artisans Wheat. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Dusty Clevenger: From General Mills and then Firebird Artisan Mills. We got that in Harvey, North Dakota. And then yeah, the freight brokerage business, we started that up. And so we kind of put all these things together and what really kind of stalled. Our progress is we ran out of money. So there's only so much in the fund that we had that we could allocate into our business. And so it's time to go find the next round of investment. And so that's when we did our recap process to bring in a new investor with deeper pockets to kind of keep that machine going. Dusty Clevenger: And then we kind of switched from private equity who understood agriculture to private equity who didn't. And the cycles of ag are just different than the cycles from making widgets in a factory. And we happened to hit one of those times when it was a tough cycle in ag. New buyer came in, they thought they were going to get this, and they got that. And so at the end of the day, most of us ended up leaving Ag Spring, and then part of that business got sold off to different directions. That's kind of why. Just different types of equity for different seasons. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. Jared Flinn: I just. I remember kind of watching all of it play out and unfold, and it was just so fascinating to see. And again, just how fast it grew in a short amount of time. But it was a lot of fun. Dusty Clevenger: When you have. When you have that alignment, it's really about alignment with what the market wants, with what a business wants, what the capital wants, and kind of what the competition or your counterparters are kind of letting you do. When you have that alignment without a lot of layers, you can just execute. And we just executed. It was a lot of fun. Jared Flinn: Let's talk about where you're at today and kind of doing same thing just with the group. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. Jared Flinn: You've been involved in some. We were just talking about some that you've done here in the past. I don't know if we can talk about those, but like some of these, the ones that already been executed, because I think at the time I was talking about Skyland Grain. But you guys were part of that. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. Jared Flinn: Acquisition Keen kind of share a little bit about that. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. So we. Gosh. So we. So at Ascendant Partners. So we're, like I mentioned, we're a small firm, we're boutique. We've got seven people. Denver, Kansas City, got a couple guys, Omaha, Chicago, Madison, Wisconsin. Dusty Clevenger: And we really focus on agriculture and ag. When I say it's kind of. It's a grain handling space, it's a little bit kind of the first level food space. And then the big thing for the last couple of years has been the merger of energy and ag and renewable fuels, particularly around renewable diesel and the supply chain for feedstock for renewable diesel. So last September, we closed a half billion dollar raise for the new crush plant In Mitchell, S.D. that was a big one for the firm where we brought in local investors and an energy partner and an anchor sponsor in South Dakota and a protein meal off taker and kind of put that capital structure together. And that plant's under construction now. We'll be up there, you know, in a couple of weeks to see it when we go pheasant hunting. Dusty Clevenger: So it's really neat to kind of see those things happen. You mentioned Skyland Grain. So it was announced a month or two ago that the Andersons is coming in to buy a piece of the Skyland grain business in kind of Kansas through the Texas Panhandle as a partner to kind of keep growing that business, along with about 9,000 co op members. So we got the knock from Skyland and say, hey, we've got, we've got some issues on our balance sheet and we need some help to fix them. And so we come in and we usually start just as a advisor, consultant to kind of sit down with them and say, you know, what do you think is the best thing for your business? And so we'll work through that without the motive of let's get a deal done, let's raise some money or let's sell something. Let's really figure out what's the best thing for you. And it may not be to do a deal. So we'll do that and then from that we'll help them with what do you want to do with your business? Is it buy something, sell something, raise some money to do something else or something different than that? With Skyland, it was, let's bring in a partner with the South Dakota project, let's raise a bunch of money to build this plant, you know, West Plains in western Nebraska. Dusty Clevenger: So we did that last this May for them, it was, you know, we've got this business, we're trying to kind of figure out a better way to make margin in what we have. And we help them carve out a chunk of their assets to a local co op that kind of streamline their business. In that case, and a unique one this week I was in Guyana, the country of Guyana, I didn't tell you about that, but I was down there. And the country of Guyana, I should. Jared Flinn: Know where Guyana is, but I know. Dusty Clevenger: Where is South America between Suriname and Venezuela. So in Guyana, they've, the last few years, they've discovered tons and tons of oil reserves. And so Guyana is a country of 800,000 people that has. They're the 17th largest country in terms of proven oil reserves. Tiny country with a lot of oil. That's obviously going to change things significantly for them. They're part of this Caribbean community of 15 nations that was formed after Covid and food supply chain problems. And Guyana is kind of the breadbasket for this group. Dusty Clevenger: So through a friend of a friend and a connection of a connection, they kind of get a hold of us and say, hey, we've got all this farmland here, this land that could be farmed, and we need some help because in Guyana we mine gold, we mine diamonds, we have oil offshore and we've got all this savanna land and we really want to farm it. And the government's very pro business and all the pieces are there. We just need somebody to farm it and we don't know how to do that. So Ascendant gets the nod and we get the deal and we go down there. And so this week we were looking at this savanna land and, and meeting with foreign secretaries and all these people to try to put together a package to say who would be the best person to come in develop this land. And it's beautiful land. It blew me away how it's virgin turf. It's like just how God made it eons ago. Dusty Clevenger: It's just sitting there ready to go. So who can we bring in to develop it and to then operate it as commercial scale food production, capacity to service this Caribbean community. So those kind of things, you know, they're a little, you know, off the normal for Ascendant, but we get to see that kind of stuff too. So with kind of what I've done and who Ascendant is, it's a lot of fun to be able to just come alongside Skyland Grain or the government of Guyana or whoever it is to kind of help them realize more potential in their business in a way that I think really honors the talents and skills and resources that God's given us to steward on his behalf. And that's really what we're doing. Jared Flinn: Well, let's talk about that because that's wanted to make sure we really save some time that. But you've been faithful in your business and work and talk about how that's played a role in your business. And specifically too, we shared this when we were at family camp together. But you've really helped coach and mentor others that have started businesses and really talking about how putting God first in the business will bless you far more. Dusty Clevenger: Absolutely. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah, man. That leads everything for me, I mean, it's. You know, I used to tell people that I have a list of priorities in my life. It's my, my faith, my family, myself, my job. And if I keep that in order, I'm going to do a great job for you, Mr. Employer. A few years ago, I realized that that was a bad way to think about it. My list has nothing on it except my faith. Dusty Clevenger: If there's anything else on my list, it's a temptation to be an idol. My faith just leads all of it, and I don't shy away from it. In Guyana this week, I'm asking people about their faith and we had a great conversation with the guy who was driving us around about his faith and his church experience. And I think that this, this platform of ascendant partners, this blessing to be able to help in this investment banking role, it's good to do deals and it's good to help businesses. But the reason I'm doing it is because of the human that's behind it. And I see that person as someone who is going to spend eternity somewhere is someone who has the same fears and struggles with sin and all those things that all of us do. And maybe they have Jesus and kind of understand how his forgiveness works in that situation, and maybe they don't. Maybe they're trying to solve it some way, some other way. Dusty Clevenger: And my prayer with all of these meetings is just to reflect Jesus in that situation. And it, you know, in terms of how I. How I help younger guys who are coming behind me who feel like they're trapped on this treadmill, just sprinting as fast as they can to try to gain rank and get more ribbons on their uniform. Only wealth, material wealth. Yeah, only it doesn't really, it doesn't really matter. You know, it doesn't get them what they thought it would to kind of help them step off the treadmill and just kind of reassess kind of what really is important and how can I see life through a high definition TV lens, not just black and white, which is kind of, you know, what I think life is like without Jesus in their heart. And then how do they take that and put those thoughts into how they behave as fathers or mothers or husbands or wives or employees or bosses? And it changes everything. You know, specifically, there's examples that, you know, when I was at our safety company, we went all out on a biblical foundation and we had some great mentors, like David Green, who started Hobby Lobby, was one of our mentors and kind of talked to us about how Hobby Lobby does their thing. Dusty Clevenger: So we paid off all of our debt. We changed how we pay and send employees. We did a tithe program once a quarter, and our employees had the obligation of sowing our tithe money as a company into God's kingdom according to a certain rule set. And we set all those things up. And then Covid hit, and we had this website and had everything, you know, no, all this stuff was ready. So God had gotten that business ready to be a tool for him and Covid, that financially blessed us, but we were a conduit for Covid. It's kind of cool to see that we have the same kind of structure at Ascendant Partners, where we want people to feel the love of Jesus when they come to Ascendant. We don't talk about it a lot. Dusty Clevenger: We don't advertise it. But that is the heart of who we are. One of our values is to focus on the human. And that's why that value is there, is because we are all people behind our logos or our corporate, you know, business card. We're people, you know? And I found that the more I talk about that and tell people kind of why I care for them and why I want them to be successful through whatever my role is with them, they all appreciate that it hasn't cost me anything to be forward with my faith. If anything, it's led to some really cool, deep conversations and hopefully some seeds planted, some seeds watered that, you know, when I get to heaven someday, I can see some people up there that'll say, gosh, I'm so glad that we had that chat. That's my goal. Jared Flinn: Yeah. I was earlier this week in Pennsylvania visiting some clients in Lancaster County, Dutch community. But a couple things I noticed was just how rich and faithful a lot of the people we went. I mean, in that community, a lot of Mennonites, Amish. Some companies we visited were Mennonites, some not. But a lot of them. I mean, their faith was just so strong, and they talked about the Lord and God's blessing. But I'm looking at these people, I'm like. Jared Flinn: And I said this to the gentleman, our videographer that was with us. I was like, you can see the Lord's blessing upon these people because they've been faithful. And the last time there was one of the companies went and visited, we started talking about the gentleman's father who started this company. And I was like, why do you think he was so successful? Well, number one, he said his faith, but he said he was so generous with People. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. Jared Flinn: And that just impacted me. Dusty Clevenger: Like his. Jared Flinn: He said his father was just. And continues today. He was generous with little when they started, and he was. Now he's generous with a lot. And I mean, it was. It was encouraging for me to hear that. And again, it was just like. It was. Jared Flinn: As I see more and more as I travel and visit these people, you pick up on those, and especially these communities where you can see how strong their faith is and really how the Lord's blessed them in many, many ways. Dusty Clevenger: Oh, for sure. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Dusty Clevenger: One of my things has always been I want to be a river, not a reservoir. It's so easy to be a reservoir. In the Bible, we talk about building bigger barns, and I think we see it a lot as people become successful, they build bigger barns. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Dusty Clevenger: You know, the nicer car, literally the bigger house, the next house, all these kind of things. People build bigger barns. And it's so tempting to do that because we're. We get judged by others by the size of our barn, you know, and I always challenge myself to. I want to be a river of whatever. It could be money, it could be time, could be talent, could be anything. Be a river, not a reservoir. I don't need a bigger barn. Dusty Clevenger: And for me, a key part of this whole thing, Jared, is you have to have accountability, because otherwise that sinful part, that's still in my heart, and it's going to sneak in there and say, you know what? You could probably use a little bigger barn. And I am definitely not perfect in this, but I have accountability in my life with my CPA on tithing as an example, and other guys who I kind of say, this is what I want to do now, hold me accountable to this, because when the time comes, it's really going to be easy to go this way when I know I really should go that way. So that's a key thing I've learned in my life is accountability is so important. You can't do this alone. None of us are strong enough to do this on our own. We have to be in community. And it's really, you know, that's what Jesus would say is his church, to have that accountability where you can just be completely vulnerable with people, you know, a men's group, whatever it is, to have that accountability. And when you stumble and you struggle with something, you can let them know and they can lift you up. Dusty Clevenger: And when you're successful in something, they can be the first one to high five you because they know how hard it was for you to get through that. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Dusty Clevenger: Critical. Yeah. Jared Flinn: I'm glad you mentioned the men's group. That's something that I've always tried to make sure. Because when Jared lives in isolation. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. Jared Flinn: Jared's in a very dangerous spot. Dusty Clevenger: Right. Jared Flinn: And I always have to. Always I have to be around men that are keeping me accountable and sharp. I want to go back and we'll end it on this one. Dusty, again, I talked about our viewership on here and you know, we're seeing all different size businesses. We really see trucking, aging out, but even some of these businesses. But for people out there that are maybe kind of thinking transition or, you know, acquisition, walk us just a little bit through that process, how that works. Because I think it can be something that sounds like, well, I'll just wait and to see if something happens or should I be proactive in talking with someone to seeing if there's an opportunity out there. Right now it seems like in the trucking space there can be some really good deals because it got really saturated. Jared Flinn: So we're already seeing some of these companies acquiring other companies and really kind of building a bigger platform or ecosystem. But I guess my question for you is someone that's out there maybe thinking strategically on maybe growth or strategically on maybe selling or being acquired, give us kind of high level how that process works. Because I think that's one thing that just seems like it can be a little uncertain. And does somebody really have my best interest? Dusty Clevenger: Sure. Well, you know, I think the thing. And you know, and I've seen this in my own family and you know, my dad, a successful entrepreneur that's created a great business and he's been proactive in the last number of years and kind of what the heck's going to happen to this thing? Because everybody gets to that point, like, what is going to happen to this. This thing that I've got? So I would definitely say to be proactive and at least thinking about kind of what do you want to have happen? You can do that on your own or with your family or with an advisor. I would, you know, obviously I'd recommend having a trusted advisor who could be there with you to kind of help sort through, you know, what are your hopes and dreams for this thing. I mean, if you've built this business and you've got this, you know, this machine that creates wealth somehow, what do you want it to. What do you want to do with it? Do you want to, you know, cash out that's perfectly okay. And what does that look like? And then how do you maximize that and what's the right time to do that? There's huge tax implications for how you do that. Dusty Clevenger: That advise can help you through. Do you want to create something for the next generation? And kind of what does that look like? And kind of, who is that? And how do you start that process or something different? So there's always, you know, this inflection point where they need to make a decision, and the sooner they think about it, the more prepared you can be for when that moment comes. The last thing you want to do is have that moment kind of sneak up on you all of a sudden, and you're not ready and you're forced to make a decision, and that's when you could lose a lot of value. And the things that are important to you kind of become less important than time. Right now, if you've got time on your side, use it to kind of get that plan figured out. But in terms of process, like for us, as an example, if we had somebody call us, hey, I'm kind of, you know, this is kind of where my business is, and I'm kind of thinking about kind of what I want to do in the next few years. You know, that would be where we would start as well. What do you want to have happen? And what does that look like can help us see? You know, if you had a magic wand is something I like. Dusty Clevenger: If you had a magic wand, what would you make happen right now? And so we kind of start with that, and then we work backwards in terms of how we could get there. Either we helping you or we referring you to somebody else or just kind of telling you how to do it. Usually when it comes to this, the point of, you know, I want to maximize value while protecting my legacy is a typical answer, then the role for someone like Ascendant is we have access to so many different types of partners or capital or those kind of things. Like we mentioned before, we could kind of sort through a pile and come back and say, here's four or five that make a lot of sense. Why don't you meet with these guys and they can meet with you and just kind of see if there's some chemistry there, see if that makes sense. That's really a big part where a boutique firm like Hasan that we can help you answer the questions and then also kind of introduce you to some people that kind of meet what you're looking for, because it's a needle in a haystack, and you can't just Google it all the time. You know, Google is going to direct you in one direction and maybe the right direction. Direction somewhere else. Jared Flinn: Have you all messed or have you had any experience with trucking at all? I know some of these elevators, I mean, they do have fleets, but I didn't know if that was something the firm has ever messed with. Dusty Clevenger: We, you know, in the two years I've been there, I haven't seen any. We certainly could have in our history, but I don't know. Jared Flinn: Okay. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah, but we do see. I mean, we touch a lot of logistics. You know, we've got, you know, projects on rail. We've done things on, you know, barge terminals, all that kind of stuff. But trucking companies, I couldn't say that we've done one since I've been around there. AgSpring, obviously, we did a bunch with the ag Force platform. But yeah, it's. It's a business and it's. Dusty Clevenger: It's. It's a person behind the business that has a hope that, you know, again, our job is to help unlock that. Jared Flinn: So I guess I'm always, you know, now seeing. Visiting the countryside, but seeing hundreds of thousand of these companies, but these successful companies, I see not. I mean, I'm not saying they're all this way, but like, it's them that have really kind of maybe diversified and maybe kind of thought outside the box on what else they can do. But it's interesting to say that sometimes maximizing. Maximizing value might be kind of bringing things together and consolidating and where you're. You know, a trucking company can work with a barge or rail. I mean, and bringing those synergies together versus keeping them separate. Dusty Clevenger: I'll give you one last example just on the kind of what you want to do. So there was a guy when we were at Ag Spring in Idaho. So we started our business out there. And there was a neighboring elevator that was owned by a gentleman named Ray Carlson. I still remember his name. A Mennonite guy, kind of prominent in the community. He had this great grain elevator that kind of fit well in our network. And so we met with Ray and like, okay, Ray, you know, we'd love to buy your elevator, and here's why. Dusty Clevenger: And, you know, what do you want to do? He's like, well, I'm a seller, but my number is. And he had this big number that was like twice what it was worth. Like, well, we're not going to get there. And. But what do you really want? He's like, well, you know, I got my grandkids and kind of want to pay for these things for them. And, you know, the money has a purpose for kind of this legacy of mine. So understanding that need for him, we're like, you know what? How about we buy your business with this variable annual annuity product that we're going to buy on your behalf that basically pays you this revenue stream over a period of time that gets you to the number that you want for your grandkids. For us, we can buy the product for what's a fair value today. Dusty Clevenger: And for you, you get that revenue stream that gives you that money over time. So it's a time arbitrage. And he agreed. And we bought it and we closed it and that's how we did it. But it was understanding for him. He thought he needed this much money now to create this for his grandkids and understanding what he was really going after. He didn't need a bunch of money now to go buy a bigger barn. He needed money to kind of leave his legacy for his family. Dusty Clevenger: So we helped him do that in listening to him. So that's one of the things where, you know, if someone like Ray has a business and they're like, gosh, I would really like to find a way to do this for my family. And it's kind of a unique thing. I just don't know how to do that. Having a conversation with someone like us can kind of help think outside the box a little bit and kind of whiteboard some different ideas that could get there. Jared Flinn: Yeah. At the correct matter. Like, what's your outcome? Or like reverse engineer. Like what, What. What's the end game? And then let's kind of back off. Yeah. So last question. I will let you get you out of here. Jared Flinn: So what does the. The land. Because you're seeing agriculture all over. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. Jared Flinn: What does the landscape look like for ag? Dusty Clevenger: Great question. You know, it's. I think I've seen, you know, I've been in the industry for 25 years, kind of professionally, and seeing there's so much changing the last few years really revolving around. I think the big thing is renewable fuel policy. If you look at what's happening at the federal and state level around things like renewable diesel and sustainable aviation fuel and the alignment of energy and ag. So when ethanol was a big deal, energy and ag were at odds with each other. With renewable diesel, we're all on the same page. With sustainable aviation fuel, we're all on the same page. Dusty Clevenger: Airlines are committing to go green. That means they have to have saf. To have saf, you have to have a Feedstock for it to go to Europe. You can't use vegetable oil, so you have to have another kind of feedstock for it. So you get these novel crops like Camelita and Carinata, which mean you have to have a way to crush it, which means you have to have a grower to grow it means you have to have a transportation to move it. There's all these pieces to it and the forces are massive behind it. So for the ag space, you know, we've seen 23 soybean plant expansions or green fields and five new canola crush plants. You know, those things are half a billion dollars of coffee a copy. Dusty Clevenger: So big dollars coming into the space. It's changing the flows in terms of what growers grow, where trucks move to and from. We're going to see that continuing to change. More protein meal hitting the market because we're crushing more oil seeds here for the oil, not the meal. Used to be a crushed soybean for the protein. Jared Flinn: Yeah, oil was a byproduct. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah, it's flipped. You're crushing for the oil. The meal is a byproduct. And that that ratio is kind of moving around a little bit, but that's what's happening. So the role of the elevator is kind of changing, the role of the farmers kind of changing. I don't know how it all sorts out, but I do know that this energy around a movement towards greener fuels is real. Renewable diesel is real. You can put it in any one of your trucks and burn it, and it burns just as well as petroleum. Dusty Clevenger: Diesel, sustainable aviation fuel is the only way you can go. You can't put batteries in airplanes. So SAF is real. And over time, it may be a decade, it may be longer or shorter. We will see different supply chains and crops that we've never heard of before. That's all coming, which opens up opportunities and risks for people that kind of want to think differently about it or not. It's exciting for us to be where we are because we get to kind of see the landscape and kind of be a part of what's happening. And then on top of all that, Jared, there's so much money sitting on the sidelines that wants to be a part of it. Dusty Clevenger: That's a little scary because money can come in and really mess up a supply chain if it makes a bad bet. So there's definitely responsibility to try to make sure that we put it to work in a good way so we don't mess up up something, you know, so that's that's something that we. We carry very dear with us at Ascendant is how we kind of be a part of that. But a lot of change. And they'll be good. They'll be, you know, people will pay a lot of tuition along the way, but it's going to look different a decade from now than it does today. Jared Flinn: Yeah, I guess I'm excited about that. I think I see that as opportunity. Dusty Clevenger: Yeah. Jared Flinn: For our industry and especially for our clients that we serve. Especially. Because that stuff, it's got to get moved one way or the other. And a lot of times, if there's more of it, that's going to be more truck movement, too. Dusty Clevenger: And those truck supply chains are flexible. It's not like you got a rail line that goes from A to B. Jared Flinn: That's right. Yeah. Dusty Clevenger: It's a flexible supply chain that can. That can ebb and flow much more easily than a river or a rail. Jared Flinn: We have a second guess that we had one in Susan Stroud. She came in a couple months ago, and she said the exact same thing that you just said, so it must be real. So, Dusty, buddy, thank you so much for coming into the podcast. I think, more than anything, man, I'm glad God intersected us, and I'm glad we got to meet and start that relationship. You've been a good friend, and I know your family's waiting, so we'll stop at that. So, man, thank you so much. God bless you. Appreciate it. Jared Flinn: Thanks, Jared Tyler. We touched on it on the end, but I loved just talking about the faith element. We know that we talk about that on here, and we don't ever do it to brag, but we want to glorify God and share his message out there. I loved how Dusty just shared his message and how faith has been interwoven with what he's done throughout his career. Tyler: And I think it's a very common theme that we see with successful businesses, is a lot of them that grow and are successful, it's because of the faith aspect, and they put all their trust in God, and God plays a big picture in helping them grow their business. Jared Flinn: I've always. It wasn't till even later on where we kind of really incorporated faith more into our workspace here, and it's just been encouraging. I think more people want that and they want to see that in the workspot, and I that it's just been awesome that we're in that stage of life. And it doesn't mean that challenges don't arise and issue or situations but again, I think it's a commonality that most of us in this industry share that we get to glorify and be part of it. Tyler: Yeah, to me, it's just a breath of fresh air, especially whenever you're going out and visiting these companies, whenever somebody says, hey, thank you so much for incorporating Faith on your podcast and everything. It's just a breath of fresh air knowing that, hey, there are a ton of businesses who are incorporating it, you know, in trying to incorporate it in their business. And I think that's what we need more of. Jared Flinn: And speaking of, we really, I think a lot of people were shocked when our conference was last year and incorporating that in there. Just the prayers that we did before meals and sending people off. But if you are interested, I spring that up because our conference is coming up. Man, you've done. I'll just say you've done a great job. We've already sold a lot of tickets. We still have plenty available. We've already secured a lot of sponsorships. Jared Flinn: So this thing is steamrolling. It's super exciting and I want all of you to be part of it. Tyler: Yeah, it's going to be April 16th to the 18th in Branson, Missouri. You can go to bulkfreightconference.com and get your tickets right now. The Early Bird tickets are on sale until January 15th. After that, they do go up, but we have secured sponsors, so I'm just going to highlight some of those and just say thank you to Walmsley Transport, RFG Logistics, RC Trucking and Rating Transport, Martin Vibrators, Ingredient Logistics Services, Bushel Aero Truck Sales, Western Trailers, Wilson Bulk Reliant Transportation and Fultz Trucking. So I just want to say a huge thank you to our sponsors. We do have sponsorship opportunities still available, so if you're interested in helping us put this event on and partnering with us, we definitely appreciate it. Our goal is not to, you know, make money off this thing. We just want. Tyler: Our goal is to break even. So whatever extra money we get, we put back into the conference so we can make it, you know, we can make it more personal and that much better. Jared Flinn: I think, you know, we hear this every year, but some of the resistance, there's never a good time. There's. There's. You're always going to be busy in life. Tyler: Yeah. Jared Flinn: Trust me. We all have families. We all have work that we have to do. We other seasons that. That require a lot of our time. This is something you don't want to miss. You will benefit greatly from it. And the people that you will meet, you'll come to find out there's a lot of people in this industry that had the similar goals. Jared Flinn: And when we unite together as a group and come together and discuss these good things happen. I promise. So that's my word of encouragement. Do not let this thing slip. Get your tickets right now. Make plans to be there. You will not regret it, I promise. If you do, and if you don't, like, if you do regret it at the end, come see me. Jared Flinn: I'll refund you. Tyler: Yeah, we'll make it right. Jared Flinn: We'll make it right with you. But, yeah, look on your calendars. Go ahead and block it off right now in your calendars. Go ahead and get your tickets purchased. That way you're in. And we will see you there here in a couple months. Five months. Tyler: Yep. Jared Flinn: Yes. Tyler: Yeah, Five short months. I will say this, too. If you go on the conference website, there's a link on there that says hotels. We've partnered with Hilton to provide all attendees 50% off their room rate. So make sure that you are using that link to secure your hotel rooms. Other than that, I want to mention we do have the calendars. They're being printed right now. 2025 calendars. Tyler: And this thing. Garrett did a really good job putting this thing together. We've included some pictures that Joe took, so there's some really good pictures on here. I'm excited. And our calendar again this year for 2025, we'll have all of the important truck dates on there. So we have Matt's on there, all the truck shows. We have the bulk freight conference listed out. That way, you know when each event is. Tyler: And we want to give it away, the calendars completely for free. So if you want a calendar, just simply drop down below in the comments and just comment that you want a calendar and we will reach out to you and get you one. Jared Flinn: Yeah, they're not printed yet, but they're on. They're at the printing press. So fill it out now. When they come in, probably be in December. We'll get those sent to you. Tyler: Awesome. Jared Flinn: So awesome. Cool. Well, again, Dusty, thank you for coming on the podcast today. One thing before we close out of here. I heard this quote the other day. You know, we're getting into the holidays. The holidays can bring a lot of happiness, but they can also bring a lot of stress to people in trucking. It's something the holidays were. Jared Flinn: It's always tough because trying to get drivers back, you're missing days on the road. Just. It's a logistics nightmare. So I get it. I've been there. I've breathed it out there. But I heard this quote by John Milton. I thought it was good. Jared Flinn: It says, the mind is its own place and in itself it can make heaven of hell or hell of heaven. So again, it's a perspective of how you treat this. So if you think the holidays are just going to be, and I mean, it's going to be logistics, nightmare, getting the family together, having to spend money, all that. Yeah. That it can be chaotic or you can make this the best holiday season yet. So again, it's all perspective and how we go out there and make the day our own. And that's just my encouragement here. So make a hell out of heaven. Tyler: Yeah, that's good. Jared Flinn: Well, as we always do, I will close this out. Heavenly Father, we love you. Lord, we thank you for people like Dusty Clemenger and what he's doing out there to glorify you and spread your word. Lord, we pray over this industry and Lord, as we get into the holiday season, with Thanksgiving and Christmas and all these holidays, Lord, we just ask that we keep you in the center of our hearts, Lord, that through all the chaos, Lord, that we know that you are the reason, you're the reason why we celebrate here on this earth. And Lord, that we have the privilege to celebrate you and be with our friends and family. Enjoy those times. So, Lord, let us slow down in life and enjoy. Lord, we pray a special blessing over this bulk community of trucking companies, shipping companies, brokerages and our farmers, Lord, that you just be with them throughout this week in your heavenly and precious name. Jared Flinn: Amen. One thing, last thing too, we do have a prayer line if you would like, drop down below. But you can send a prayer request to prayeroloads.com we would be honored and we find that a privilege to pray with you. Last but not least, if you haven't yet, make sure and subscribe. We got a lot of content that we're pushing out more and more every week. If you subscribe, you'll be notified anytime we push out a video, a clip, a podcast, link, any of that sort. And then also as one small thank you from us, if you don't mind sharing this clip with a few others that they can see the content we produce and get more subscribers on there. That would be just a small favor that we ask of you. Jared Flinn: Thank you very much for listening and as always, God bless.